Welcome to Your Small Boat Discussion Group

These pages are dedicated to your input. You can provide small boat comments and suggestions, or just ask questions about design. fabrication or any other subject that me be of interest or concern to you.  The webmaster (me) will scan the input files just to make sure there is no advertising, scams, or unnecessary language involved. Otherwise, articles will be posted as received. Contributing an article is easy, just send me an e-mail with your information, and I will post it in the order it is received.  So, without any fanfare, let the discussions begin !  Please scroll down for the latest, always at the top.

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*** Your Comments, Suggestions and Discussion ***

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09/07/2010

Hi Ken,

          Well, I have some good news and some bad news.  During the weekend the weather was not too great and the lake had wind blown waves of approx. half to one foot in height. As I'm a brave soul. and sea water runs in my veins, I decided that I could not stand it anymore and set forth with the Kayak+ for a sail.   Everything thing was going fine as I ran with the wind and waves, the funny sensation on the aft being pushed and lifted. I was very happy with the balance and no water coming over the stern.  I then made a cut against the wind in the leeward side of a small island.  Then, to my horror, the wind increased and in the shallows the waves strength became stronger. I was now in 1ft waves and approx 6ft between each, and white capped.

           I had faith in the Kayak+ design and build that my small craft would not bust open.  After another 10 mins I decided to return home with 3/4 speed on the trolling motor.  The run back was more fun as I began to ride up one wave and cut through the next.  The bad news was that I should have fitted a splash deflector after my last outing.  The only draw back with the bow being flat is that the waves sometimes crash onto the bow, then in slow motion make their way back to the open cockpit.  There go my trousers again, and wipe down with a cloth.   I would amend the design and add a water deflector before the cockpit as to stop any ingress of spray or water making it back to the operator.  My family was at the dock worried that I was going to get swamped and sink. They watched as my Kayak+ rode the waves, and there I was with a silly smile enjoying every minute. 

           The other good news is the redesigned bow section of my Toter2 worked well, with no major stress on the bulkhead, and as the pictures show, it lends itself to the boat shape.  I must say tonight was the first time I put all sections together and was very surprised at the result. She has a  wonderful line for a small craft, and I'm looking forward to see her in the water and under sail.  I have been invited to a private lake that's more sheltered and has less traffic , so that I can  test the boat out.  You have made a wonderful looking boat here and I think I'll get some heads turning once she 's in the water.

 

Well, that's all for now.

All the best,

                        Dave Balmer

TOTER 2 hull modules with modified bow plate, necessitate by very stiff marine plywood.

 09/06/2010

KEN,

I TESTED THE PROBOND GLUE FROM ELMERS. IT FAILS THE EMERSION TEST BIG TIME. OH WELL THANK GOODNESS FOR TITEBOND 111 AND PL PREMIUM.

KEEP ON BOATING.

FRED

Ken's Reply:

Hi Fred,

Thanks for the update.  I am not surprised, but still disappointed. I will post this bit of info for others to read. 
Your work on other boat projects is of interest to me. Is there an update to your blog ?
Hope you are having a great Labor Day .

Regards,
                  Ken


09/03/2010

Hi Ken, 

          I have just been working on the Toter2 build, have main section/aft section and mast /boom made. having problems with the for'd section.   I'm building with 1/4 inch marine plywood and everything was going fine . Then today I put the part together for the for'd section.  then disaster, I placed a 2x4 on the bulkhead to stop any warping. Then I tried to fix the triangular bulkhead in place.   After about 5 mins there was a cracking sound and I then looked in horror at the developing crack and severe warping at the bulkhead. 

        May I ask if the length of the bow was increased would this help to take pressure from the bulkhead as it seem's the bend of the bow section is to tight for the marine plywood.  Also if the bow plate was increased from 5 inch to 6 inch.  Any thoughts on this matter would help me greatly.  

All the best,

 David


The above picture show the force generated by the bending of the side panels.

Hi David,

I read your email late last night, and could not sleep just thinking about it.  You are right when you say the marine plywood is too stiff, and that's both good and bad.  Not having used marine ply recently, I can only imagine the difficulty. 

 There are 2 possible solutions that I can envision. The first is to use thinner plywood on the side panels of the forward module. It would bend sufficiently to meet the bow panel, and should hold the shape. This would mean building a new bulkhead assembly (which you may have to do anyway) with a slightly larger width to compensate for the thinner side panels. The thinner marine ply would certainly be strong enough for the task, so don't worry about possible structural problems.

 The second option is to modify the shape of the bow panel from a triangle to a 4 sided panel whose base would be wide enough to accommodate the bend of the existing plywood. It would be a trial and error situation, however, and I would estimate a width of about 4 inches may work.  (sketch below)

This should not change the nesting of the hulls, or adversely affect the sailing qualities.  My POLLYWOG design was built this way, and it sailed very well.

This is truly an unforeseen problem that I will have to address on the plans, as I do not want anybody else the experience it.  I have had similar situations with previous boats, but nothing to this extent.  Your pictures tell the whole story. Just looking at the marine plywood I sense a stiffness that is not present in Luan or ACX grade ply.

Let me know what you decide, as I want to include the data on future plans. I am very sorry for this turn of events, and hope the above suggestions are of benefit to you.

Best regards,

                     Ken

8/31/2010

KEN,

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU ABOUT GLUE. I KNOW YOU LIKE TITEBOND 111, I FOUND AN ELMER'S PROBOND WOOD GLUE THAT CLAIMS;WEATHERPROOF, RESISTS HEAT, MOLD & MILDEW, SANDABLE & PAINTABLE, WATER CLEAN-UP.

IT IS A FUNNY ORANGE IN COLOR, BUT IT IS $4.39 FOR A 12 ONCE SQUEEZE BOTTLE COMPARED WITH TITEBOND 111 AT $9.29 FOR 16 ONCE BOTTLE.

A QUICK OVERNIGHT TEST WITH PROBOND AND TITEBOND GAVE BOTH GOOD ADHESHIVE GRADES.

HAVE YOU TRIED THIS GLUE? WHAT RESULTS?

I AM A CHEAPSKATE AS I TRUST PL PREMIUM AND TITEBOND 111 BUT I AM ALWAYS LOOKING TO SAVE A BUCK.

YOUR LATEST BOATS ARE COOL. I AM INSPIRED TO TRY ANOTHER THREE PIECE LIKE A 14 FOOT CANOE/KAYAK. I WILL KEEP YOU POSTED.

THANKS FOR YOUR GOOD WORK.

FRED NIGHT

Ken's Reply:

Hi Fred,

Thanks for the info. I too have seen the Elmers waterproof glue, but have not yet tested it. If it is a good as TiteBond 3, as you indicate, then I will give it a go. I also look for the best cost and quality products. I usually buy the TB3 in a gallon size, which is $32 at Ace. So that breaks down to about  $4 per 16 ounces, comparable to the Elmers.  Have you tried any submersion tests to see where the joint might fail ?  

Also, if it's OK with you, I will post this Elmers information on the website for others to read.

Many thanks for your interest.

Best regards,

                       Ken


6/26/2010

Hello Ken,

I don't know how you do it !!!  You keep coming up with new designs.

No other boat  building sight on the internet is as exciting as yours. Other sights that I visit from time to time haven't added new designs for years.

Please send me more information about your new design "Poke Around".

Thanks a lot.....Roland

 Hi Ken,

I'm notoriously slow with projects like this.  I am making very slow, but steady progress.  We have had brutal heat and humidity here for the past 3 weeks, and I just can't bring myself to go to the barn and work on this.

We are promised a cool-down this weekend, and I'm planning some more progress.  The Explorer is coming together pretty nicely.

I'm planning to buy a lightweight stadium seat and mount it some way to make it removable on the bottom of the boat, just behind the middle bulkheads.  I want to slant it back slightly so I can be comfortable.  I'm going to take your advice about double-flooring the boat where I sit and at my feet.

I'll send more photos soon.

CARL

Kentucky

Dear Ken,

I just thought I would let you know that I am currently building DUET.  I would have the rear assembly already finished, but we have had heavy rains since Saturday, which doesn't allow me to build.  It is still raining hard, and is expected to continue for several days.  I should have the boat finished in about two weeks.  I will keep you updated, and will send some pictures as I complete the rear portion of the boat.  

By the way, I am building exactly to the plans.  I am going to power the boat with a 55lb trolling motor, and will probably try out my 3.5hp outboard for kicks.  I don't think I will try it at maximum throttle, though.  We'll see how that test goes.  I'll start out with the trolling motor.  I'll also try to get a video onto Youtube when I maiden the boat with the trolling motor.

Cordially,

ROGER

Dominican Republic

6/14/2010

 I just finished reading over the plans to DUET.  They are some of the easiest plans/instructions that I have seen anywhere.  This is probably the easiest boat to build that I have seen yet.  I am looking forward to getting this jewel of a boat built and out on the water.  Thank you.

Roger

Ken's Reply :

Hi Roger,

Glad to be of assistance. And thanks for the compliment. I try to make the plans as foolproof as possible, without going to extremes. I look forward to your building progress, and any pictures you may send my way.  I will probably post them on the website 'Builders Projects' page.  Then your friends can see them too.  I do not list the builders address or e-mail, just State and/or Country, for your security.

Regards,

              Ken

5/25/2010

 

Hello Ken,

Thank you very much for the information and plans.  I really appreciate it.  I'll give the game and fish a call to find out about the registration.  One other question I was hoping you could answer is where can I find good plywood in the Tempe/Phoenix area?  I've been to Lowe's and Home Depot, but they didn't have very good quality wood.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!!

~Mario

Response ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Mario,

I have not been able to find better quality plywood, and I don't want to pay the price for marine plywood either.  So, what I have done is to buy 1/4 inch ACX grade plywood, it's exterior rated, and after I completely build the boat, but before applying any finish, I give it 2 coats of Thompsons Clear Wood Preservative, inside and outside.  Let it dry (penetrate) the wood for 48 hours. Then lightly sand the entire boat, and then apply a finish (paint, varnish or whatever). It works for me, and it makes the boat very moisture resistant, plywoods worst enemy.  Hope this helps.

Regards,
             Ken

4/30/2010

Hello Ken,

I like your modular boat concepts and am considering the various designs.

I believe you now have a sail rig for the Toter 2 and I am wondering how the boat manages to go to weather if it does not have a center, dagger, or lee board? I can't imagine that the keel strips on the bottom are sufficient for that purpose...or am I missing something?

Thanks,

Al Straub,

Ann Arbor, MI

Response ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Al,

This is a point of controversy.  Normally you would be correct in your question. However, let me make a long story long. The original concept was for a portable boat that could be fitted in almost any vehicle for transport. As a power boat that posed no problem, and Toter 2 excels in that area, capable of carrying two in tandem, with built in safety flotation chambers. But, I also wanted to make this into a daysailer, but there was no way a daggerboard could be utilized and still nest the hull sections. How about leeboards? Well, possibly, but attaching them to the hull sides poses a strength issue, especially if they were to be of the pivoting type, necessary in shallow waters. Thinking outside the box early on, I decided to provide removable sponsons that would add considerable lateral buoyancy to the relatively narrow hull. The hull width (beam), by the way, is well suited to the motorized version, as it is stable with occupants seated, and yet has a decent length to width ratio, necessary for easy passage through the water. The removable sponsons add nearly 2 feet to the beam of the boat, making it a very stable platform, and standing upright is no problem. The skids on the hull and sponsons do provide a minimum of side resistance, helping to keep the boat in a straight line. When all these elements are applied to the small sailboat, the necessity for a keel, or similar reactive object, is minimized. I have been out in heavy winds without the sponsons, and did take on water a couple of times. With the sponsons I am unable to list the boat much past the sponson edge.  Tests in high winds, over 25 mph, have not yet been conducted, but I have confidence that the added buoyancy will make up for the lack of a keel like appendage. Sailing into the wind will be challenging at times, but that is a design compromise I have decided is worth taking.
I hope this long explanation is satisfactory for your needs.  Pictures and a video of the sponsons are on my website, as are the plans for downloading. Take a look, if you have not already, and see what conclusion you come to.  I will post more info as it becomes available.  Many thanks for your interest.

Regards,
               Ken Simpson
PS:  The rudder is also very helpful when going windward, especially on a small boat such as this.

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